Hello folks, I'm a 25 yrs INTJ trying to find some light in this existence. English is not my first languange so I hope it is understandble. I am at my ''best moment'' of my life (Financially independent, living in paradise, healthy, etc.. too subjective, but it will help to understand) However I have to hardly force myself to feel happy/grateful. Thinking by myself, it makes me wonder that everything is related to personal connections. It is unpleasant to talk about my issues because I know how privileged I am, but here we go. I find really difficult to connect to people in general, but especially in regards to deep intimacy. I'm not used to express my genuine feelings through language and it is natural to me to ''hide'' my emotions. I don't want to cover everything, so I will go directly to the point.. I've learned how to enjoy my ''unique qualities'' in social gatherings (to ready bodylanguage, to hear almost everything, to observe patterns etc) but lately (always have but you got it) I'm having trouble with dating.  It seems that my ''mysterious vibe''  and my physical apearence (for me I am just a ''normal guy'') intrigues people (literally all kind of people). I've had to learn ''social skills'' (tons of sources) to compensate my lack of extroversion, so I'm aware of my bodylanguage, voice tonality, eye contact etc. However, I feel that my mind works so logically that I find hard to start a conversation even to women who are clearly ''open'' or sexually interested . It seems that I have to know them very well before I make it personal. So I usually end up alone in my 'bubble' 'even when I desire to socialize. I don't care that much anymore, but obviously my ''ego'' feels when I hear stuff like ''he got some problem'', ''he is definitely gay'' , ''this guy is always by himself'' etc I had one girlfriend in my life (for 3 years, probably also an INTJ) , some other short  relationships and several one night stand (mostly they approached ) . Any thoughts on this ''case''? Feel free to ask details , my thought process, or anything..


INTJ-she (not verified) says...

As a INTJ female I may have a slightly different perspective than the average female or a male INTJ.  The best advise I can give you is to offer some encouragement, let them know you are engaged and interested.  Take a personal interest, as them about themselves.  This is very difficult for INTJs since we tend to keep our feelings very close to the vest.  We don't want to appear foolish, and vulnerable.  Talk to them establish a good mental connetion, and then offer some affirmation. 

There is an INTJ male I have been interested in for a long time and share a mental connection with.  Recently I've decided to emotionally walk away from him since there is no evidence of him having any real regard for me.  He talks to me frequently and the conversations are deep.  But there is no real affirmation, he doesn't ask me anything personal, or how I'm doing.  It's all about topics I enjoy discussing like science, politics, current events.  But a lack of the personal has lead me to believe there is nothing more than a intellectual compatibility based on a shared interest in those topics.  I'm not saying this is what you are doing, but it might be worth a personal examination to see if possibly you are not being obvious enough for the object of your affection to know that you do infact care for them. 

If it is any consulation you are not allone, interpersonal relationships for INTJs are our Aquillias' heel.  Best of luck!

INTJ-Man (not verified) says...

Just out of curiosity, do you ask him how he's doing? Do you affirm him? Do you ask him anything personal? Do you make it obvious that you like him for more than friends? I ask because you said you don't want to appear foolish or vulnerable. I'm sure he may feel the same way. If what you want is not conveyed to him, don't you think maybe he's just as confused as you are?

If I was to date someone like you, would I have to keep up with the asking of how you are doing? Reaffirming my feelings for you? Ask you personal questions more often? Make it obvious that I feel deeply for you, like even if I give you a long hug, should I try and kiss you too if I really want to?

I'm really curious, that if this is the case then maybe that's why things don't seem to work out with me and other Introverts especially INTx types. Indicators of romantic interest are not always readily apparent, so I have nothing to go on to get a read on the feelings of other introverts, as they tend to be very stoic and reserved too, so it's like neither of us is making a move to be a couple.

poopstain (not verified) says...

I have had similar experiences. Starting with the ego, I would suggest meditating to eleveate the effects it has on your actions and decision making. It will always have impact, but usually its not a positive one and you can work on dulling said impact. As I would expect an INTJ to do, you have clearly done quite a bit of communications research and real world testing to amend your faults. What it comes down to is a lack of perspective from you in my opinion. What I mean by that is you clearly approach it as a task rather than an oppportunity. In fact, you even refer to your situation as a "case." Although knowing body language and tonality is great in assessing a social situation, it is likely ungrounding you from the situation. You're not living in the moment but instead analysing the moment. This is not a bad thing in my opinion, but notice how you never know what to say to open a conversation with a woman? It's not just because your mind works logically, it's because you've become ungrounded thus disconnecting mind and body leading you to freeze up, they work together man. 

You meet a girl and she's pretty, her body language and eye contact suggest she is confident and her occasional smiles give you the idea she may be interested in you. You want to say something but these are the only things you notice and you obviously can't talk about these things in a casual manner that isn't off putting to most people. Or can you? There are plenty of ways to go about this. One thing I've noticed is when people have great posture (likely because I try to work on mine). So through some experimenting, I started complimenting people on details like posture that I've noticed about them, which most people don't notice at all. All you have to do is state what you think, but you have to state it like a typical INTJ, like you know what you're talking about because its likely you know extensively what you're talking about. So another example. If you're into fashion, and you notice an attractive woman with qualities you find admirable is nearby and you want her number or want to ask her out, give her a compliment on what she's wearing (if what she's wearing is worth a compliment, don't stray from what you think). INTJ's shy away from their best quality in social situations, which is being direct and honest. In a world where most people like to play the game of "she said this, so I should say this." Brutal honesty and unforgiving directness can actually be very very endearing. A simple, HONEST compliment on her appearance, her cadence, whatever it may be would do wonders. Add the fact that you're mysterious to most women as am I from what I can gather, and after a few minutes of talking to you some might end up feeling very refreshed by your personality. Beware though, most people love to talk about themselves, and very rarely do you come across one that is a breathe of fresh air to you as well. 

Referring back to honesty, my girlfriend has told me that she values my opinion on things incredibely because she knows I won't say what she wants to hear every single time she asks me something, even if it may upset her. She also knows that if I say something, I mean what I say and the way I said it. I'm not saying if your girl goes "Does this dress make me look fat" you say "yes dear." What I'm saying is, if you have a thought, and that thought is valid (to you), and the time and place is right to reveal that thought, let 'er rip son. I often compliment my girlfriend on her shoes because I know she tries to match her shoes with her outfits really well. So if I think (in my limited fashion knowledge) that she made a great choice. I'll say something like "Babe you look great, those shoes were a great idea." Another way of starting a conversation is to become more funny. Most people think being funny is natural, and to an extent they are right. I would add on to that, that everyone is capable of being funny. Maybe not universally, but there's a niche for everyone. From what I've noticed, INTJ's can work at being funny because of the analysation aspect of the personality type in relations to environment or surroundings. I've had great success with some (in my opinion) killer one-liners with groups of people at once, and that alone shoots your stock up and makes for easier conversation with people. So don't stop at learning just what social ques to be aware of, but instead learn what ques to project.

And not that it matters, but I was right there with you in highschool man. My lack of a sex life was dissected my senior year in front of like 6 people and I had no answer for "Why haven't you dated anyone" because I was already pretty funny, an athlete etc. I just didn't know how to communicate with people on an intimate level. Well, I was actually more afraid to be honest haha. To be straight up, I still have a lot of trouble communicating authentically in group situations. I do alright with 3-4 people when I know the majority of them, but I do far worse in situations where I know maybe only 1 person, because I know how authenticity and an unwaivering personality can come off as douchey etc. This is what I'm working on for my own growth right now.


Say what's on your mind. Don't be afraid to mess up or say something wrong, not everything is a test. The sooner you realize you can benefit from being over analytical even in social situations, the better. Become more grounded, and use that analytical talent your advantage not by manipulation but by implication. You giving an attractive girl a compliment as an attractive guy does give off the vibe your interested, which is what you're looking for. It also loosens them up to be more receptive to conversation with you knowing you're not some weirdo with a blowup doll collection back home. Hope some of this helped, best of luck.

heravih says...

thank you

RoseJ (not verified) says...

I feel your pain so much! I'm on the fence between INTJ and ENTJ (it depends on the day) and it's hard for me to open up to people even though I very much enjoy physical contact and appreciate the few deep relationships (with friends). It seems like the expectation for liking people is set to warp speed- I just want some time to get to know people before before investing- Or maybe I can't invest if I don't know them. Guys usually like me too much before I'm ready to open up, and it's overwhelming. Can people not just hang out? Build trust? Commune as human to human before forcing romance? I laughed when you mentioned logic, because I use that word so often trying to navigate relationships! Things just don't seem reasonable! 

I wish I had any answers for you, but you aren't alone. 

May (INFJ) :) (not verified) says...

You.need.to.find.your.tribe :)

I actually was checking out some content for a friend, when i saw this conversation & thought I might add some lines to it, maybe it helps, maybe not - I tried ^-^" - also pls. note : english is not my first language.

First of all, I´m introverted, too, so I don´t feel the need of going out and meet new people, I have family and friends and that is alright by me. I do understand though, that you need connections, that's how we humans work, and in this case it doesn´t matter if you are extroverted or introverted, we all need other people

What I learned about people is, that they are all different - and this is a necessary thing! The world wouldn't work if we were all the same, and that's also what the types are all about, aren't they ? And this is a good thing, we have Teachers, Artists, Firefighters, Lawyers, Architects etc. We are brave, curious, scared, facts lovers or running around barefoot in a flower field - yes, I have met ENFPs :)

I think what everyone of us needs to understand is that because we are all different, not everyone understands you - even if they would try, they just can't.  (remember the way our brain works when it comes to logic vs. feeling, or numbers vs. words. I mean it - they can't.)

It's not their fault, it's not your fault ! Our brains work differently - and now the tough part - that is ok.

In a perfect world everyone would get that concept and that it is not about acceptance - but as I said before, some people just  really can't.

We wouldn't blame a child who sucks at singing for not being able to sing a song, or would we ? Would we whisper behind walls, how super strange this child is, this weird child over there that just can't sing, like, who can't sing, right ?! So weird ! Nope - We would just say : ok, his/her talent lies elsewhere, maybe. Yet, when it comes to feelings and logic, people are quick to say things like "stupid" or "too sensitive" or the opposite "too cold" and make people feel wrong and dumb when really they are not at all !

Naturally people like to build up a world and apply to the rules. And no rules are rules, too, in the end. However, whenever you don't follow certain peoples rules, they will not know what to think of you and therefore they will do this : 

 ''he got some problem'', ''he is definitely gay'' , ''this guy is always by himself''

(Shadiversity has a nice vid up about this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFdyveVxFiw )

I really am sorry, that you met people, who do not get you. You are great and no matter what other people say, you are an Individual and just because you do not fit in their world doesn´t mean you do not fit in this world. 

I've had to learn ''social skills'' (tons of sources) to compensate my lack of extroversion, so I'm aware of my bodylanguage, voice tonality, eye contact etc. 

You should not need to do that. 

Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. - I think Einstein said this.

It took me really long to actually understand myself and that I do not need to change for anyone or adapt to society (and yes, of course, at some point you must adapt to certain things unless you want to live on an isolated island, but you do not need to change your views or way of thinking!) If I don't want to go out, I just don't. If no one understands me, it is not my fault but it's also not theirs. If your brain works differently there is nothing wrong with you. You also need to accept yourself. Selfworth is also important. Do you really want to befriend people who say bad things about you without knowing you ? 

Also note, that therefore not everyone is compatible with everyone. For example if you desire someone who absolutely is not compatible with you, like in my case, some super sporty - doing not thinking - i don't like books - let's jump of the rock right now - guy : Try to forget it and move on! Also for his/her sake. People can be nice that doesn't mean they are your friends or your next potential partner. I'm nice to everyone, that doesn't mean I'm friends with anyone, not at all. Accepting someone, doesn't mean he is a friend. Liking someone doesn't mean he is a friend. And being attracted by someone doesn't mean he will be a friend at all. 

Of course Attraction is important for a romantic relationship, but attraction is something that you can not clearly define. At least I never could.

Did you ever find someone really talented or really kind hearted or funny and think this person is attractive, although they are no supermodels at all. It's not just the face. I find many actors attractive, that doesn't mean I want to marry them or even be friends with them or meet them. A persons character is what we fall in love with in the end not just the physical appearance. I met some quite beautiful and intelligent people, but I also met beautiful, seriously dull people, that attraction would be the least thing I could think of to describe them. So it's not only physical appearance - don't look for new people in your life with this criteria.

However, I feel that my mind works so logically that I find hard to start a conversation even to women who are clearly ''open'' or sexually interested 

Then let them talk. If they are interested in you, I'm sure they will.

First of, and that has nothing to do with MBTI but is just a common thing when you enter (any) relationship : you need to know what you want. 

As you guys are INTJ :) So I will focuss on deep relationships and not on easy going ones here.

Relationships, romantic ones or friendships all work the same :

I think that we all had this moment when you like something and meet someone who likes that same thing, too and then "Bam!" friends ! You need a base for every relationsship, so chatting up strangers and highlight clothes or details - might get you talking, but still : It gets you nowhere, seriously (unless fate strikes and you happen to meet someone who is actually like you .)

Again, I´m focusing on xNxJ. I'm not talking about ESTP and ESFP at parties here, yeah, chances are high it might work out for them, but for an INTJ - not so much. Relationsships are different for everyone, what you want, what you need, etc. 

So what to do : First of all, you need to find this common ground in reality. I think the problem for finding Introverts as an Introvert explains itself. But if you really want to meet other people and I recommend that because as I said before we all need people, you need to move out of your comfort zone. (I´m not saying add 1000 friends on facebook, just look out for people who are your tribe.) As an INFJ I like to find out about people and how they tick, so I would keep wondering and asking and the conversation would flow easily, I would not once feel intrigued. Because my mind is just not working that way. ENFPs would probably hug you, ENFJ would wrap you up in a blanket. Even ESFJ would try to talk to you. I met all those types and also others who I really do not connect with at all and who do not make you feel good in any way.

To me, it sounds as if you guys haven't found the right people yet, there is nothing wrong with having a different personality. They should accept you, the same way, you should accept them. If they don't, also accept, that they don't accept you and move on. If you really want to meet new people though, and people who are like you, you must go out to places where they are hanging out.

For example, you are into sports, join sport clubs, you are into literature, join a book club, you are into art, do an art class etc. Find out what you like and find people, who like it, too. "Chatting" will be easier and even if you are shy (not the same as introverted) people will chat with you if you let them. There are one million possibilities out there that you can do and join. And only one might be enough already to start !

What's important too, don't force it. Try to be happy with yourself and happy with what you do and then try to find people who are the same and you will have friendships and a relationship and be just fine :) . I'm sure of it. 

Also I found this and think it fits :

The positive side of INTJs’ “giving up” is that they are most attractive when they aren’t trying to be attractive, working in a familiar environment where their confidence and intelligence can be seen in action. Allowing others to come to them is often INTJs’ best strategy, and if they perceive a potential to the relationship, they will spare no effort in developing and maintaining stability and long-term satisfaction :)

Mind BLown (not verified) says...

I'm Sorry your feeling this way. I literally just started looking into the different personality types and it's fascinating but also made me sad becuse I feel I have it ALOT easier than most after reading some, I.m a ESFJ. It's simply easy for me to walk into a bar of strangers and leave knowing all their names and having a great time with everyone, Then I fell for a guy over the summer and he was differnent than me and I thought is was just shy or insecure. He was just an average looking guy that I meet online and looks aren't everything once you get to know someone, I never thought it would go somewhere but we had chemistry and it did. 

I'm not saying this to brag but I'm a former model and a beautiful woman and between that and my personality being so much stronger than his he made some lame excuse to break up with me. It really hurt me, You just be you and some girl the right girl will notice dont stop trying because with every encounter you learn more and more, And that's all what were doing in this life is learning. I have health issues and I have to fake the smiles when I feel bad, You hold your head up when you don't feel confident fake it and pick put a girl in the room and go talk to her, Then the next and next one, Change your goal of does she like me, will she go home with me ....Your building a new you and you win no matter what!!!! You are what matters and one day it will be less uncomfortable and easier, hang around more extroverts watch them. Just don't stay home in your bubble all your life or you do lose because you have only one life to live... The journey has just begun!!!! Go get em Tiger!!! I hope this helps :)




GirlyINTJ (not verified) says...

You sound like an INTJ for sure. It depends on who you want to date. I suggest you to date NT types as I found I matched with these types better than other types. If your look is average, I suggest you to focus on girls who are attracted to intellectual guy. INTJ, INTP and ENFP are drawn to intellect. INTJ will take a long time to warm up. ENFP can connect fast but they don't commit. I personally find INTP the easiest to connect for INTJ. They are geeky. They are into video games, board games, and technology type of activities so you know where to find them. :-) As for communication, INTPs are awkard like INTJs so they don't mind that you lack of communication skills. 

GirlyINTJ (not verified) says...

I forgot to mention INFP. Many INTJs like to be friends or build a relationship with them. They are slow warmer, too. You need to wait for them to like you. I don't find them particular interesting. They are reserved, open-minded and idealistic.

Thanateros (not verified) says...

I am from Brazil. And I am an INTJ Man too. In my country  the women are sexists and conservatives. So man must have stable work and be taller, older, stronger , funnier and with more social skills than women to begin the approach. I did not know any women who approach men in my country in clubbs ir parties (only very famous Men like actors or musicians the women approach hear).  And I never met a couple with man shorter than woman hear . Or with man more shy than woman or something that don't match with that gender roles that I said. I am a short man , INTJ , with no stable work and shy. And I like very abstract topics like occultism. So is Very difficult for me. I use Tinder for more than 5 years. I had many Matches (640) but only 70 dated with me. The most get out after some online conversation (they don't like of my deep and abstract conversations or my height or the fact that I did not have stable work or Go back with some ex boyfriend or with no motive, maybe found someone "better", with match more with her ) or I get out after some conversations ( don't like of her concrete Topics like job, routine, what do, where live, etc or the fact that she don' develop the conversations (only yes, no, etc)  or that say no time after time when I invited her for a real date. Of that 70 that I had a real date, only  40 I Kissed And only 5 I did sex. Because the woman didn't like of me or because we did not have chemistry or because she did not have "emotional conection" with me or because I did not have "mental conection" with her. And the most of them are Ns like me (INTP, INFP, INFJ). But my experience is that SJs and SPs have nothing in common And get out after some chat on Tinder. NFs and NTs go to deeper conversations and some for real dates but NFs only If values are the same.For example, I am conservative and some INFP (in general they are liberals) get out after see my facebook and my like on conservatives posts . NTs girls get out if  did not fins me efficient for her. An INTP girl that was my virtual crush past Summer get out because I AM not "efficient" for her (because I AM not the classical male role in gender role). Many women get out too because I AM not funny (I AM more serious than vitorian age persons) or social skilled enough ( and Brazilians have this social skills more developed that any other country unfortunally for me ). The only girlfriend of Tinder was an ISFP that I stay with her for 7 months. She had all values and hobbies in common with me. But we aré Very different and was Very difficult our relationship.

Thanateros (not verified) says...

Here, not hear. Sorry for my english, I only speak portuguese. Another thing Is that I am not Spontaneous. In Brazil the men that women like are like Chandler or Joey of Friends. Spontaneous, high social skills and Funny. The men here are like this 2 in general. And women in Brazil are like Penny of Big Bang Theory or like the kardashians. And I am like  Dr. Laszlo Kreizler of "The Alienist".

Thanateros (not verified) says...

This is the best explanation of a relationship between INFP And INTJ that I read. The relationship in general never begun. Infp girl in general love Very fast And never see explicity problemns in any man. Are iluded by the Men. But with INTJ man is the opposite. The intj men are iluded by infp. Because the infp girl in general see ALL the fears of past relationships in INTJ man and is very cautelous And juldgemental of him. With ALL in Common like a soulmate she is yet suspect of him. And a simple problem is ALL that she needs to doesnt begun The relationship. The values of life of them, personality And way of communication of both are Very different. The infp see INTJ with suspicious, much seriousness (in a bad way), not spontaneous, artificial, robot, blunt, arrogance, smart (in a bad way), cold, rational (in a bad way). 
The INTJ see infp with suspicious, with arrogance because of spontaneous counsells to him, like the owner of the truth in the social and emotional arena , like a childish and imature person, like a hippie that laugh of anything and dont compromise in anything, like a Bullyer of his personality and him in general because of excess of sincerity and spontaneous that infp has, that she demand a Lot of him, is very judgmental of him, deluded him, see only defects in him, is an emotional abuser And is trying to find problem in him to justify the relationship not Begin. 

I never see any healthy type. This is general. In Tinder, okcupid, Happn And ALL apps all The milennials are unhealthy. Because of this relationships of infp And INTJ are so hard. Maybe that explanations cliché of INTJ And infp like best Matches are because they analyse The rares couples that are high evolves. Or older people of x generation, baby Boomers And others. For me, infp And INTJ are The worst match of Myers-Briggs . The infp feels suffocated, suspicious, nostalgic of bad ex partners problems And controled. And INTJ , victim of bullying, victim of an emotional abuser And emotional turmoil And has problems of his self-steem.

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